Liberty's Light

A Christian forum dedicated to the discussion of how a nation based entirely off of biblical principles ought to be like. We believe that Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, and that God's righteous hand is necessary for the blessing of any nation.
 
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 Sufficiency of the Scriptures

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Hannah Marie
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 01, 2009 7:00 pm

Your argument is going askew. In order to test your argument, you would have to test every aspect of life. Since this is impossible to do so, we must go back to the foundation that God's Word is Absolute Truth. If you can prove that God's Word is not Absolute Truth, then you can prove that it does not provide all necessary principles for every aspect of life. Simply put, we have reached a dead end because you provide just as much as lack of proof or evidence as you claim I do.

Blessings,
Hannah Marie

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If you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding; and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:1-5
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 01, 2009 7:03 pm

I was wondering if you would catch that. Wink (And yes I did use that logical fallacy) Basically, there is no way to prove that God's word is Absolutly true because we cannot fully test the Word. Therefore, we are at a tie since neither of us can prove that absolutely the Bible is true for all things, or the government.

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Hannah Marie
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 01, 2009 7:11 pm

That is a dangerous thing to say; God's Word is not to be tested as it holds all that is good and true within its teachings (Rev. 22:18-19, Hebrews 4:12-13, Matthew 24:35, John 8:31, Isaiah 55:11). God's Word is the final authority on all things.

Blessings,
Hannah

_________________
If you accept my words and store up my commands within you, turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding, and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding; and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:1-5
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 01, 2009 7:31 pm

Hannah Marie wrote:
That is a dangerous thing to say; God's Word is not to be tested as it holds all that is good and true within its teachings (Rev. 22:18-19, Hebrews 4:12-13, Matthew 24:35, John 8:31, Isaiah 55:11). God's Word is the final authority on all things.

Blessings,
Hannah

Ah, but that is just the thing, it is good "within its teachings" Then you make the jump to all things. You have yet to prove that.

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 02, 2009 3:12 am

Peter G. wrote:
Hannah Marie wrote:
That is a dangerous thing to say; God's Word is not to be tested as it holds all that is good and true within its teachings (Rev. 22:18-19, Hebrews 4:12-13, Matthew 24:35, John 8:31, Isaiah 55:11). God's Word is the final authority on all things.

Blessings,
Hannah

Ah, but that is just the thing, it is good "within its teachings" Then you make the jump to all things. You have yet to prove that.

In Christ,
Peter G.

You misunderstood her: she said that everything that is good and true is contained within its teachings, not that everything within its teachings is good and true, although that is also true.

Alright you two, settle down. I would prefer that we all focus on what we actually believe and figure out how to apply it to this forum in particular, instead of endlessly debating the fundamental doctrines of Christianity. Make sense?

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 02, 2009 9:52 pm

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
Well, a quick thought here: this forum was founded for those who agreed that we only need the Bible to figure out how God wants every nation to be constructed (things that are variable can be determined by outside factors, of course). In other words: we should all already agree on this. But it should also be discussed to clarify what we mean by it and how it is applied. Make sense?

Oh, boy. Sounds like I'll need my rights read to me before we continue with the discussion. Smile in all seriousness, though, I do believe that we only need the Bible to figure out what God wants in the sense that He commands it.

"What God wants" has several different meanings. For example, God did not want Christ to be crucified because for the soldiers to do it was a sin. Yet He wanted Christ to be crucified, because He wanted to save sinners and glorify Jesus through it. So there are several different meanings of what God wants.

What I'm trying to do is avoid confusion on the word "want." God always wants the government to administer justice. For this, the Bible sets up clear boundaries. God loves his people, thus, in a sense, he always wants the government to make wise decisions within those boundaries so that the people will prosper. However, our prosperity isn't highest on God's agenda, so He may sometimes want to bring glory to himself through unwise decisions from the government (still withing their boundaries) that cause the people some harm. God may want to glorify Himself through a government which usurps its boundaries and administers injustice, such as Russia's government under Stalin.
The Scripture is absolutely sufficient in discovering everything that is involved in running and creating government! First of all, we are forming a completely biblical-based government here; we do not focus on looking through general history and discovering what aspects of other governments have worked best in the past. That is not our calling, and it is not what we are striving to accomplish. The actual principles that we are seeking to implicate within our government system is based completely and entirely on Scripture and must have Scriptural support. Some of these wants may seem contradictory, however, they are not. Even a human may want to eat a cookie because it will taste good, and at the same time not want to eat it because they don't want to get fat. My main point here is that God has different kind of wants. I can think of at least three kinds. In this post I will call them His Will of Command (that we would obey Him), His Will of Blessing (that we would make wise decisions and reap the fruits of them) and His Sovereign Will (what He predestines and what, ultimately, happens.)

We both agree that we need only the Bible to determine God's will of Command. This includes what government is allowed to do, and isn't allowed to do. Government is allowed to punish criminals. Government isn't allowed to persecute Christians for their faith. This is where God wants us to obey Him. I think you believe that whether or not the government should build roads is an issue of command.

God's Will of Blessing cannot always be determined with Scripture. When Solomon ordered that the baby be cut in half in order to determine who his real mother was, he was seeking wisdom from God, but he didn't see anything in Scripture about giving false orders, or even anything that said it was okay to give false orders. This action was shown favorably in the Bible, but that doesn't mean that Solomon would have been sinning if he had done something else. If he hadn't thought of this trick, he might have ordered the women to share the child, like maybe each one would have him for a month at a time or something. This wouldn't have been as wise, but I don't think it could be called a sin. but God gave Solomon wisdom and creativity to solve the problem in a much better way. This, I believe, is a good example of what I'm calling God's Will of Blessing, where He wants the government to act wisely, so that the people will benefit. We can look for principles in scripture and seek wisdom from God, but for things like this, there is no direct command. If God wants it one way or the other, it's not because it would be a sin to do it differently, but only because it would be easier for the people to have it a certain way.
I believe that whether or not the government should build roads falls into this category.

Lastly, there is God's will of decree. Everything falls into this category. Either God allows it to happen, or He does not. Almost none of it can be determined with Scripture, except for the prophecies that have not yet been fulfilled. Whether or not government builds roads obviously falls into this category, because ultimately, right or wrong, wise or unwise, the government will either build roads, or the government will not build roads, and whatever happens is in a sense God's will. There's no point debating about this because we won't know until after it's already happened.



Anyway, sorry about the long post. Basically, I agree that we only need the Bible to figure out how God wants a nation to be constructed in the sense of His Will of Command. I do not believe the Bible tells us how God wants a nation to be constructed in the sense of His will of Blessing. And of course the Bible doesn't tell us how He wants a nation to be constructed in the sense of how He has decreed it to be.

Do you agree about this, or do you believe that there is no Will of Blessing, and that there is a right or wrong for every decision to be made in government? (By the way, the phrase, "Will of Blessing" was the best I could think of on the spot, so if you can think of a better phrase to describe it, please feel free to do so. Smile )
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Jonathan S.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Dec 04, 2009 10:32 pm

Hey everyone, long time no see.

I wanted to comment on this topic, because as has already been said, it is foundational to everything else.

YES, the God has given us everything we need for life and godliness, and he has given it through his Word, the Scriptures. Yet I have to agree with Dr. Hipopotamo on this one, in that the Bible does not give specific instructions for government. He made an excellent case for this idea in the preceding post.

So here's my two cents to add to the argument: Nowhere in Scripture does God give a direct command on how a government other than Israel's is supposed to function. Neither does he give a list of duties of government. The only times that the duties of government are explicitly mentioned, God is not talking about government's duties, but about our response to government. (Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2:11-17)

if then, God has given us everything we need for life and godliness in his word, where does government fit in? I believe that there are many general principles given that apply to government. For instance: do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony.

Here's an example of how those apply to the duties of government: If a president wants to decide whether to implement a program, roads for instance (since this is sort of a part of the utilities thread), that president must first decide if doing so would break any of God's laws. Would collecting taxes for the purpose of road building be stealing? No. He is using tax money to provide something that all the citizens will want and use. How about if he wants to provide health care for low income families? Well, that would be stealing, because he is taking money from one section of the populace to benefit another section.

Here is Webster's 1828 definition of stealing: 1. To take and carry away feloniously, as the personal goods of another. To constitute stealing or theft, the taking must be felonious, that is, with an intent to take what belongs to another, and without his consent.

If the Government follows the general laws given in the Bible, won't it be automatically in accord with the Law of God? Since there seems to be no direct command about what government should do, it must follow general laws that apply to everyone.

Can't wait to hear what y'all think.

In Christ,

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~Jonathan S.
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and discipline. --2 Tim 1:7
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 05, 2009 5:26 am

I only have time to respond to one part of your post Johnathan, and I'll tackle the part about the duties of Government.

In Isaiah 33:22 the prophet Isaiah states,

"For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our King.
" (NIV)

Isaiah is saying, from the lips of God, that God has instituted a government. The three branches of government we have today. Judicial, Legislative, and Executive. And He has instituted duties for each. To rule, or have the face of a ruler. (The King) To make laws for the land. (The Lawgiver) And to judge for things that happen in our nation, such as murder. (The Judge) As you can see, God actually has instituted what our government should look like, and its duties. Make sense?

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Jonathan S.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 05, 2009 9:50 am

Peter,

You have used a serious exegetical fallacy. Namely, you are taking the passage out of context. In its context, it is command to Israel to love the Lord. No matter how you try to interpret it, you cannot show that it is a command to governments, or about governments. It is saying who God is. Be careful when you use Scripture that you don't take one verse out of context and use it to make a point that it was not intended to make.

In Christ,

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~Jonathan S.
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and discipline. --2 Tim 1:7
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 05, 2009 7:07 pm

I have only two things to say in response to your post Johnathan:

First, what context clues are you refering too? You only state that it is out of context, but don't really say how.

Second, do you know about Teen Pact? Because that was one of the verses that they used to support Government. Teen Pact is very respected and also quotes Romans 13 and other verses to support government. I doubt that people like Tim Echols wouldn't make that kind of mistake. He is very respected in that realm.

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Jonathan S.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 05, 2009 9:35 pm

Sorry, Peter. I should have explained myself more fully. Here is the whole passage:

Isaiah 33:18-22
18Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe? where is the receiver? where is he that counted the towers?

19Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.

20Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.

21
But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.

22For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.


I think that in context, this passage is saying that the in the Day of the LORD, the Israelites will no longer be under the control of foreign kings. To call this a command about government makes no sense. Could you show me where Teen Pact uses this verse?

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For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and discipline. --2 Tim 1:7
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 7:11 am

It would help if you did explain yourself fully. Especially with some statements you made. Wink

Um, about Teen Pact. It was in the homework that was assigned to us before we got there. This is the question that they asked us regarding the verse.

"Considering Isaiah 33:22 and the definitions of the words "legislative," "executive," and "judicial," what is...three branches of government." (the reason for the dots is that my paper was photocopied badly, and cut the rest off, so I can't read what the rest would have said. I think what goes in the place of the elipse is, "the purpose of the")

And in reply to the verses, if what you say is right, that the Israelites will no longer under the control of foriegn kings, (With the verses leading up to verse 22) and then in 22 Isaiah is saying that God is our judge, our lawgiver, and king. Would you not agree? (I'm going by this step by step so it will be easy to follow hopefully.)

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 3:56 pm

Peter,
You are right that this passage describes God as our Judge, our lawgiver, and King. But I'm not sure I see how this is a direct command to every government in every situation to have these three branches of government (if that's what you're saying; if not, then feel free to correct me.) Look at this passage, for example.

1 Samuel 12:12 (King James Version)

12And when ye saw that Nahash the king of the children of Ammon came against you, ye said unto me, Nay; but a king shall reign over us: when the LORD your God was your king.

Samuel was making a contrast between having God as king, and asking for a human king. He doesn't say "Because,"; he says, "Even though" (or in King James, "when"). It is also interesting to note that when God instituted the Israelite government, He appointed Moses as a judge, but He did not appoint a lawgiver or a king.

Now, I'm not saying that this passage forbids human governments from having these three branches, because it's not in the context of such a command. It's in the context of God rescuing His people. What I'm saying is that A) The context makes it clear that it's not a command for all governments, and B) If it were in the context of a command, it wouldn't be a command for all governments to have these three branches of government.

_________________
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6: 12)
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 4:39 pm

I beileve the main point against what I am saying is that what I am saying will apply to all governemnts. Not so. This verse has thwo meanings that I see.

First, that a biblical Government should have three parts to it. The three branches we have now.

Second, that God is made up of three persons, and each one is given one of those duties. For example, God is our king, the Holy Spirit is our judge. And the Son (Jesus) is the lawgiver.

Now, these are interpertations that I see. There could be more, and mine could be right. (I believe that the first is correct, the second is a little far fetched.) I will go into more detail after Johnathan replies.

Also, I agree that it will not apply to all governments. And also, that God in history has used one, two, or all three of those three branches of government correct? (I'm not sure, please correct me on this. Very Happy) And also, God normally creates things, (especially us) in His image. Why not government?

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Dr. Hipopótamo
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 7:19 pm

Peter,
I may be misunderstanding what you're trying to say. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you on the term "Biblical government." You say that the "three branches command" (if it is a command) doesn't apply to all governments, but that a Biblical government should obey it. Right? Or is that not what you're saying? What I'm thinking is that a Biblical government means the kind of government that every nation should have, according to God's intentions for government. Thus, anything that a Biblical government should do is something every government should do, whether they do it or not. So any command that applies to a Biblical government will in theory apply to all governments. However, your post made me wonder if I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "Biblical government." So what do you mean?

In Christ,
Daniel

_________________
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6: 12)
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Jonathan S.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 06, 2009 9:13 pm

Peter,

The main point that I see against your position is that you are calling this a command, when it is clearly a description of God (i.e.: He is our King, Lawgiver, and Judge--which, by the way, would have all been synonymous in that day). I'm willing to go so far as to say that this may suggest having three branches of government, but it is by no means a command of God that we must have three branches. So in fact, this passage supports my main opinion, which is that many biblical principles can be used to build a government on, but it is naive to say that the Bible includes unequivocal, exclusive commands for exactly how to run our government. Does that make sense?

P.S. my name is Jonathan, not Johnathan. Very Happy

_________________
~Jonathan S.
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and discipline. --2 Tim 1:7
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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 7:02 am

Peter,

I have to somewhat side with Jonathan and the Dr. on this. The passage in Isaiah is not prescriptive of how to structure our governments. We've already determined in the legislative and law threads that a legislature is not a biblical concept. Man cannot make laws because that would put man above the law. The passage in Isaiah is descriptive of God. He along is the only lawgiver.

But back to the topic of this thread. I submit that all of Scripture if fully sufficient to show us how a nation, church, and family should operate, what it should look like, and what should be done in every kind of situation that will arise. I'm reading a book called Family Reformation by Scott Brown who take John Calvin's writings and shows how the Bible is fully sufficient for what a family is and how it should operate. The Bible gives clear teaching on marriage, modesty, manhood, womanhood, childhood, courtship, child raising, widows, divorces, fertility, sanctity of life, etc. Every kind of situation that would effect the family is addressed in Scripture. The same can be said of the government and the church.

(Notice I'm saying 'kind of situation.' Just like money is the root of all kinds of evil does not mean that money is the root of all evil; so Scripture is sufficient for every kind of situation. Though it doesn't tell you which college to go to, it tells you how to choose which college to go to.)

I will quote two paragraphs from the aforementioned book in regards to Scripture being sufficient.

"Calvin's strict adherence to the Scriptures was the genius of the Reformation in Geneva. Instead of thinking that the Bible was only adequate for certain circumstances, Calvin regarded it as the supreme reference point for all situations. Calvin believed that the Bible contained all that was necessary for life and godliness, and as a result, the whole of Scripture was scanned for answers to every question and for solutions to every problem. The battle cry of the reformers was "sola Scriptura" or "Scripture Alone!" This meant that they dealt with difficult texts and did not skirt their clear meanings for the sake of their traditions.

Holding the Bible to be the only reliable sourcebook for answers to family questions, Calvin was relentless in removing anything in family life that did not find a pattern or command in Scripture, and embracing all which did."

I want to quote 2 Timothy 3:16-17 because I think verse 17 clearly shows us the sufficiency of the Scriptures for every area and kind of situation in everything.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

We've determined that running a nation is a biblical mandate and a good works. Thus, Scripture thoroughly furnishes us, making us perfect to run a nation. The only thing we need in order to know how to run a nation is the Bible.

There is a conference in Cincinnati, Ohio called the Sufficiency of the Scripture Conference hosted by the National Center for Family Integrated Churches. They have speakers like Paul Washer, Voddie Boucham, Doug Philips, Scott Brown, Ken Ham, and others. I really wanted to go, but will not be able to. I am hoping to get the lectures on CD though, if they will record them. If I do, I can post up anything else I learn on this subject. You all may want to google some of the above key words yourself, though, to get further information on the subject.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 8:37 am

Caleb hit the nail on the head (to borrow the colloquialism) when he quoted 2 Timothy 3:16-17

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


That is where the all comes in. That is where government comes in. Influencing a government to follow its Godly restrictions and commands is a good work, especially since God instituted government.

Now we need to figure out how it helps us to perfectly guide governments in a godly way.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 1:38 pm

Okay, I think I need to clearify something. I do not mean ALL governments. I mean that it is Biblical to have those three parts apart of our government. And Jonathan (sorry for misspelling your name by the way. Embarassed) even admitted that it could pertain to government! That was my whole point! I don't mean that we have to have our government that way, or even that this verse is a command of how to have a government. I was only pointing out that this verse refers to how it could relate to governments. Does what I say make sense now? And would everyone agree that this verse relates to government, and it could be a reference about governments? (not saying it is 100 percent, just is it logically possible?)

And is there an illistration of a legislative body in the Bible?

And I agree with Caleb and what he said about the Scriptures. Very Happy (I was only being the devil's advocate earlier... Wink)

In Christ,
Peter G.

P.S. It seems like everyone is against me! Wink
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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 2:57 pm

No, I don't think that this passage is about governments. I think that it is a descriptive verse about God. The passage is about God and His kingdom, not anything to do with earthly kingdoms.

-Caleb
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Peter G.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 07, 2009 3:01 pm

I asked COULD it have something to do with governments. Besides, God normally institutes or creates things someway in His image. (man, nature, animals) Therefore, I think He would also create a government in His image. Besides, when we try to follow who God is, would that not be the best thing? I mean if God is our king, should we not also have a "king" or president? Because we should model things in His image. And one of His images is being king. Would you not argee?

In Christ,
Peter G.
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Sir Emeth Mimetes
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 08, 2009 4:42 am

The discussion of Isaiah 33:22 is off topic, as it does not address the above focus of the discussion.

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 08, 2009 5:58 am

Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
The discussion of Isaiah 33:22 is off topic, as it does not address the above focus of the discussion.

Jay is right. This discussion belongs in the Forms of Government thread. This topic is to be discussing whether the Bible is fully sufficient to show us how to set up and run a nation's government, or whether it provides only a good start, but does not address every kind of situation.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 08, 2009 6:30 am

caleb wrote:
Sir Emeth Mimetes wrote:
The discussion of Isaiah 33:22 is off topic, as it does not address the above focus of the discussion.

Jay is right. This discussion belongs in the Forms of Government thread. This topic is to be discussing whether the Bible is fully sufficient to show us how to set up and run a nation's government, or whether it provides only a good start, but does not address every kind of situation.

To God be the glory,
-Caleb

Actually it belongs in LL2. Smile

Does 2 Timothy 3:16-17 provide sufficient support for the sufficiency of the guidance of Scripture for helping us to righteously influence nations? If so, which I believe it does, how does it guide us: in what ways in what amounts?

_________________
I am Sir Emeth Mimetes (knighted to the warfare of truth by the calling of Christ, the Master of my order), and thus, though poorly is it ever met by my feeble abilities, is my mission: to combat those ideas that are rooted in mindsets that are contrary to my Master.
May I never forsake abiding in Him, and may His ways never cease to thrive within my heart, for He only is my strength and hope.
note: emeth is Hebrew for truth, right, faithful;
mimetes is Greek for an imitator or follower.
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PostSubject: Re: Sufficiency of the Scriptures   Sufficiency of the Scriptures - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 08, 2009 9:57 am

First, I would just like to appoligize to everyone for going off on a tanget not applicable to this thread. So, Sorry. Very Happy

Second, I believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 does provide for the sufficiency of the Scripture for all good works. And it will guide us in different ways. Either through wisdom said, (like the Songs of Solomon book) or through commands found throughout the Bible. (A lot of what Paul said would fall under this) To what extent? Well, I don't think God would write something that would tell us how to handle a situation to the fullest extent. Why? Because then we wouldn't have to rely on Him to get through life. We would rely on His word more then anything. Do you guys agree with me?

In Christ,
Peter G.
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